Yes, I get what you mean now.

I’m also not trying to be confrontational.

I had many experiences like that too.

I went to a Chinese Mennonite church where they had everyone singing in Cantonese, English and Mandarin all at the same time! “It doesn’t matter how it sounds. God can understand every language.”

A Baptist church where the minister denied it was Baptist (even though they have a website run by the Baptist church, and a bio of the minister saying he attended a Baptist seminary). He didn’t want to be exclusive you see…

He also apologized to all Muslims for “all the terrible sins committed” against them by Catholics. “But we didn’t do any of that. God loves Muslims. We all pray to the same god.”

I could go on, and on.

I’m an Orthodox Christian because:

(a) It’s the Church of Christ (and The Trinity Church, and Evangelical, and Catholic, and Orthodox, and The Church of Jerusalem, and The Real Roman Church, and Episcopal, and Baptist, and every other thing that out-of-work protestants come up with to try and give their new “churches” a catchy brand-name).

(b) Since God is One, and Church is the Body of Christ, there can only be one Church. “Sects” and “denominations” are just ways of normalizing error, misinterpretation, heresy, and schism.

(c) The Pope, God bless him, is only The Bishop of Rome.

(d) All Protestants are crypto-papists, whether they know it or not, since all protestants have ultimately broken off from Rome (Anglicans, Lutherans, Calvinists etc -> Methodists, Puritans, Quakers etc -> United, Tele-Evangelists etc etc etc etc etc. (Plus JWs and Mormons). All derive from Rome, which has been going down a wrong path since Charlemagne.

(e) All humans are sinners, and fallible, but no matter how bad an individual Orthodox Christian (including priests and Bishops) is, he/she cannot change Church teaching, since that must be agreed on by the whole Church (hence the importance of the Ecumenical Synods/Councils).

(f) I think it good to have a liturgy. Otherwise phony ministers (and crazy renegade priests like Michael “America is he Worst Sin Against God” Pfleger) will just shove whatever un-Godly rubbish they’ve come up with that Sunday into the Church service.

(g) The Word is not just scripture, but also Icons, action, and Communion.

Anyway, it makes sense to me.  Also when I look at world history.

The Roman Church argued that Orthodox Conciliarism (all Bishops being equal) would lead to division, since there would be no “leader.” The Orthodox teaching is that only Christ is the “leader” (and servant), and all Bishops being equal means that no one of them can unilateraly change anything about the Church as a whole.

Clearly, almost all division has been in revolt against Rome (and from Romans trying to pander to Protestants and Liberation Theologists and “the youth” and perpetually dissatisified reformers.) And now we have scam artists and misguided souls saying nonsense like “you don’t even have to believe in Chrst to be a Christian, or “Mohammad was a Christian, Jesus was a Muslim, it’s all the same.”

Anyway, I have faith that eventually most believers will see things the same way, and genuine Christians can be in communion again.

Also, I guess you and I have a different understanding of “The Church”. I mean a real body of believers, in communion with each other, with a tradition of apostolic succesion. It seems like you mean the usual Western idea of any group that claims to preach the Gospel. I mean I think that’s what you mean.

Re: “the Holy Spirit reveals his word, makes it comprehensible to the believer”

But Christ chose disciples and Aposles for a reason.

Acts of the Apostles Chapter 8:

“Now an angel of the Lord spoke to Philip, saying, “Arise and go toward the south along the road which goes down from Jerusalem to Gaza.” This is desert. So he arose and went.

“And behold, a man of Ethiopia, a eunuch of great authority under Candace the queen of the Ethiopians, who had charge of all her treasury, and had come to Jerusalem to worship, was returning. And sitting in his chariot, he was reading Isaiah the prophet.

“Then the Spirit said to Philip, “Go near and overtake this chariot.” So Philip ran to him, and heard him reading the prophet Isaiah, and said, “Do you understand what you are reading?”

“And he said, “How can I, unless someone guides me?” And he asked Philip to come up and sit with him.”

In other words, “the Holy Spirit reveals his word, makes it comprehensible to the believer” through the Church, which existed before The New Testament.

You mean the kind of thing I was talking about? That people just use the Bible to support their own particular idol [Marx, Obama, Moham, The UN, etc]?

yes, and the experiences i describe in my longer response above (we must be posting at the same time)

Awesome, I will read it, thank you. Hunger for it actually.

No, I should have put it in context – I don’t trust those preaching the gospel today – those are the “men” I do not trust. I was in church for only 5 years, and in one I was their token drug addict that God saved, in another they tried to twist scripture into a type of “name it and claim” it faith, much like Oprah’s perverted “think it and you’ll get it if your vibes are right,” or the “Think and grow Rich” type crap. In the last church I ended up doing the funeral for a kid who had been in my “kinship” because the freaking pastor was too busy giving seminars to sell his book. ( his mother asked that I speak – she had been hoping the pastor could reach all of his addict friends who were to be there)
The kid was trying to kick, straighten out, needed some common sense guidance – like how to look for a job, or save money – but they didn’t address any of that – just all kind of nonsense about him being anointed by God -based on his beautiful artistic renderings of Christ – to preach when the kid hardly knew scripture. He overdosed in the end. In that church they treated the “Holy Spirit” as some kind of extra in the wings who came out whenever “a word from God” was needed.

My son is in a church now and when I ask him what they say about Islam or how to deal with the perversions now being taught in school so that he can guide his son through the public school quagmire , he says they don’t mention it. I went to see him baptized and the sermon that day was some touchy feely crap on how God would take away their depression. What happened to girding up your loins?

Re: “I figure if god wants to work on my heart, or I allow Him to, whatever I need to do with enemies will become clear.”

Well, I hope not. I don’t mean it in the sense that I am waiting to hear some special message tailored for my sensibilities. I am saying that if I go back to god, it will be to his Word as recorded in scripture. As I remember, the Holy Spirit reveals his word, makes it comprehensible to the believer… can’t remember the scripture.

I am saying I won’t listen to a preacher interpret those words for me, but trust that God reveals himself to those who earnestly seek him.

Therefore, to dismiss or denigrate the Church is to also denigrate the Bible

That isn’t what I mean to do, but i loathe “groups”, I loathe the insularity that they develop. In my experience with the church, it is they who denigrate God and bible. But, as I say, I only attended for five years and after becoming angry, I judged God – wrong, but i ended up walking away.

I’d rather just be a watchman on the wall, shouting warnings. God might have a place for me, maybe not. It simply is not in my makeup to enjoy “fellowship.” I barely have a heart left at all and wonder that I am not totally deadened to God. Yet I’m not. I long for Him, just simply can’t get there from here it appears. But I seriously doubt that the present day body of Christ will be much help. And yes, I’m judging, but, what can I say, I’m a bitch.

Best wishes with your new grandchild!
Thank you, she is not quite here yet. We have been to the hospital three times but they keep sending my daughter-in-law home and she doesn’t want to be induced. They live with me so I am in the midst of it, for which I am grateful, but it plays havoc with blogging, as it should.
And I do appreciate this discussion – do not wish to appear confrontational. Just have a hard time accepting some things.

I see now.

You mean the kind of thing I was talking about? That people just use the Bible to support their own particular idol [Marx, Obama, Moham, The UN, etc]?

I put it here, at the bottom of the page:

http://brianakira.wordpress.com/2008/06/21/the-holy-land/